Once Saved, Always Saved?!?!
February 11, 2006
Today’s popular evangelical maxim “once saved, always saved” while based in the Biblical truth of justification by faith alone has morphed into a virtual get-out-of-jail-free card for far too many. The church’s duty to make disciples of all nations has been downgraded to an optional extra. The gospel call to repent and believe has become a plea for sinners to assent to the facts of the gospel, pray a prayer, and join the cool Christian club called churchianity. Gone are the stern warnings to “watch and pray” and “endure to the end”. Gone are the bold exhortations to “make your calling and election sure” and “be diligent to be found in [Christ] without spot or blemish”. In their place are the warm assurances “since you confessed you are saved” and “since eternal life is a free gift, God cannot take it back”, and the friendly reminders “everybody makes mistakes” and “don’t sweat: remember, we’re under grace!” The old doctrine that saints must diligently make a personal effort to persevere in faith has been overshadowed by the new doctrine that saints can live just like anyone else in the world and as long as they once assented to gospel truths they are most certainly bound for heaven.
I wish I was merely exaggerating the situation. But when a nationally well known evangelical leader like Charles Stanley seriously believes and teaches that people who actually stop believing in Christ and walk out on God are still eternally secure, I can hardly be accused of overstating my case. In the article linked to above he claims, “The Bible clearly teaches that God’s love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand.” He goes on to only deal with Eph. 2:4-9 and 1 Cor. 1:21, while adding in a good portion of reasoning and illustrations. In his book Eternal Security: Can You Be Sure? he makes the startling claim that salvation can be compared to receiving a tattoo. Even if moments later, you regret receiving the tattoo, it cannot change the fact that you have it! (pg. 80)
The Grace Evangelical Society exists to perpetuate such ideas. In other specters of evangelicalism, easy believism is represented by a 1-2-3-repeat-after-me approach to evangelism. A very large segment of independent fundamental Baptists (represented by literally thousands of churches and tens [if not hundreds] of thousands of members) emphasizes this approach to such excess that staggeringly huge numbers of salvations and baptisms are reported each year–which if really true, would make the Great Awakening look like a picnic. People are converted in five minutes or less–even through a rolled-down window during the duration of a stop light! One church has boasted of a milliion souls saved in the past 25 years, and yet less than 500 attend on any given Sunday.
Today no view seems criticized as much as Lordship Salvation or the Calvinistic doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints. These views are very similar, if not synonomous and both share a strong critique. Charges of “works-salvation” or “perfectionism” are thrown mercilessly at these misunderstood views.
So how did we come to such a time and situation as this? It seems that in a mix of zeal and evangelistic fervor, popular Christianity began to move away from its confessional roots in the late 1800s. American individualism probably worsened the situation, as Sola Scriptura became the license for anyone and everyone to disregard centuries of theological formulations and church teaching and come up with a myriad of homespun theories. The lasting impact of Charles G. Finney, who rejected substitutionary atonement among other orthodox doctrines, also contributed to what became popular American revivalism. Today, people have hardly heard of many of the great Reformation confessions like the Westminster Confession or the Synod of Dort, and yet they are quick to find a proof text for a host of contradictory Biblical teachings.
Yet a misunderstanding of perseverance is not limited to Arminians and non-Calvinists today, either. Doug Wilson says it well in a recent post on Heb. 3:7-19:
Apostasy is a real sin, committed by real people. This is something that Arminians get, and that most Calvinists do not get. None of the elect can every [sic] be taken out of God’s electing and sovereign decree. This is something that Calvinists get, and that Arminians do not get. Arminians can read Romans 8 through 11 and not see the absolute sovereignty of God, which is something that never ceases to astonish me. But lest we Calvinists get on a high horse, Arminians can read though Hebrews and can see real apostasy there. There are few things more exegetically embarrassing than to hear a Calvinist talk about how the warnings are hypothetical, like “keep off the grass” signs in the middle of the Sahara. There are many things that can be said to this, but the most compelling of them is that the warnings invariably deny that they are anything like hypothetical….The sin warned against here is that of evil unbelief, pure and simple. Not only is it unbelief, it is unbelief resulting in apostasy — departure from the living God, falling away from the living God. The sin is spoken of in the sternest possible way — rebellion, hardened hearts, evil heart of unbelief, and a departure from God…..This book [Hebrews] is about the sin of apostasy. Can a Christian fall away? Yes. Can someone who is truly regenerate, elect of God, an eternal Christian, fall away? No, clearly not.
Before I go on to defend the Biblical (I believe) doctrine of perseverance, let me provide here a brief excerpt from John Piper’s book The Purifying Power of Living by Faith in Future Grace
A few years ago I spoke to a high school student body on how to fight lust. One of my points was called, “Ponder the eternal danger of lust.” I quoted the words of Jesus–that it’s better to go to heaven with one eye than to hell with two–and said to the students that their eternal destiny was at stake in what they did with their eyes and with the thoughts of their imagination….After my message…one of the students…asked, “Are you saying then that a person can lose his salvation?”…This is exactly the same response I got a few years ago when I confronted a man about the adultery he was living in….I pled with him to return to his wife. Then I said, “You know, Jesus says that if you don’t fight this sin with the kind of seriousness that is willing to gouge out your own eye, you will go to hell”….As a professing Christian he looked at me in utter disbelief, as though he had never heard anything like this in his life, and said, “You mean you think a person can lose his salvation?”…So I have learned again and again from firsthand experience that there are many professing Christians who have a view of salvation that disconnects it from real life, and that nullifies the threats of the Bible, and puts the sinning person who claims to be a Christian beyond the reach of biblical warnings. I believe this view of the Christian life is comforting thousands who are on the broad way that leads to destruction (Matthew 7:13)….The main concern of this book is to show that the battle against sin is a battle against unbelief. Or: the fight for purity is a fight for faith in future grace. The great error that I am trying to explode is the error that says, “Faith in God is one thing and the fight for holiness is another thing….The battle for obedience is optional because only faith is necessary for final salvation.” (pg. 330-331 and 333)
Belief in perseverance does not negate the great truth that faith alone justifies and secures our eternal salvation. Rather it affirms with Martin Luther, “We are saved by faith alone, but not a faith that is alone.” Our works prove the sincerity of our faith, and are in this sense necessary. This is why so many passages teach that God will actually judge all mankind by their works. Without exception, Rom. 2:6-11 states: “He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immorality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.” The reason this does not teach works salvation is that when we come to God in faith (as a result of his work of regeneration in our hearts–John 1:13 and 1 Jn. 5:1, and his gifts of faith–Acts 3:16, 15:9, 18:27, 1 Pet. 1:21, Phil. 1:29, Eph. 1:19-20, 2 Pet. 1:1 and repentance–Acts 5:31, 11:18, 2 Tim. 2:25) he begins a good work in us (Phil. 1:6) and will be the One to complete it. He will produce good works in us as a testimony of the genuineness of our faith–Eph. 2:10, Phil. 2:13, 1 Cor. 15:10, 1 Thess. 5:23-24, Jude 24, Tit. 2:14.
In other words, true regeneration produces true fruit. This is Jesus’ teaching in Matt. 7:18-19 “A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.” In the parable of the sower, the only soil which produced fruit was the good soil. Even thought the rocky soil produced plants which looked healthier than the fruitful plants, they bore no fruit and withered away. Jesus said this represents those “who receive [the word] with joy…but…have no root: they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.” The clear teaching of the parable is that transient faith does not save. Only the faith that bears fruit saves.
In understanding perseverance, it is important to recognize the difference between justification and glorification. Justification is the legal pronouncement of “not guilty” which happens immediately upon our faith and is based on Christ’s substitutionary atonement. This pronouncement is a voice from heaven, so to speak, concerning our hearts. The testimony from earth (our lifestyle) does not unfalteringly reflect this. Sanctification is a slow and gradual process of the out-working of our faith and the living out of our justification. Glorification is the point when we are gloriously tranformed into Christ’s image immediately after our death. At this point salvation is final. Up until then, since we cannot enter heaven’s throneroom and hear the irreversible verdict of “not guilty” applied to us, we must trust in sanctification to prove the genuineness of our faith. The term “salvation” is most often used in Scripture to refer to our glorification and only sparingly used to refer to justification. So when we see the English words “whoever believes will be saved” it usually is teaching that whoever believes will one day ultimately be saved/glorified. The Greek tense used for “believe” most often (99% or more of the time) in such statements is the present tense which directly conveys a continual action. Literally, it is often stated, “the believing one will be saved”. If we walk away from faith and cease believing we prove to not be a “believing one”.
Perseverance is required of believers. It is our duty. But the flip side of this is the teaching that God will preserve His elect (John 10:26-30, 1 Pet. 1:5, etc.). So all of the elect–all the truly regenerate among professing believers–will persevere and it will be by God’s grace. Most reading this post already understand that God will preserve the elect, so I will not labor to prove that assertion. But what follows will conclude this post by providing a defense of my assertion that the Bible requires us (professing believers) to persevere.
The Bible speaks of our need to “examine” ourselves (2 Cor. 13:5) and to diligently “make our calling and election sure” (2 Pet. 1:10). We cannot assume that since we believed in the past or made some profession of faith, we are absolutely and inviolably secure eternally. We must make room for the Scriptural potential that our faith could be insincere or not genuine. Luke 8:13 again, speaks of those who “believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away”. Even Paul leaves it open that he might even still yet become a “castaway” (same Greek word for apostate) in 1 Cor. 9:27.
Heb. 3:12-14 (along with other warning passages in Hebrews) is emphatically clear that we might ultimately fall away, and so thus we need to daily exhort one another to continue in belief. Paul calls this the “good fight of faith” in 1 Tim. 6:12 and exhorts Timothy to “take hold of the eternal life” (6:12) and to “hold faith” (1:19), because some had already “made shipwreck of their faith” (1:20), and some have “abandoned their former faith” (5:12), and others have “swerved from the faith” (6:21). This is why he exhorts Timothy to “Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.” (4:16) This is why so often Paul and other Scriptural authors do not boldly assure their readers of their personal sharing in Christ, rather they hold out before them their duty to persevere. See all the conditional statements in the following statements: Col. 1:23–”if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and stedfast,…”; 1 Cor. 15:2–”by which [the gospel] you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you–unless you believed in vain”; Heb. 3:6–”and we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope”; Heb. 3:14–”we share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end”; John 8:31–”if you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples”; Mark 13:13–”the one who endures to the end will be saved”; 2 Tim. 2:12–”if we endure, we will also reign with him”; Rom. 8:13–”if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live”; Gal. 6:9–”in due season we will reap [eternal life (see 6:8)], if we do not give up”; Heb. 12:14–”holiness without which no one will see the Lord”; James 2:26 (with 14)–”faith apart from works is dead” and “can that faith save him?”
Scripture never gives us assurance of salvation based on our profession of faith (in a past time and place), rather it declares the objective reality of Christ’s work and the subjective reality of the Spirit’s work in our lives as the grounds for assurance. (And the stress in 1 John is on our subjective experience of characteristic obedience.) 1 John 2:3 states ” And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.” 1 John 2:19 also gives us the key to understanding this truth. It helps us to interpret what happened when we see someone who seemed to have genuine faith fall away. It declares, “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they weent out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” In other words, we should not conclude like some Arminians that all professing believers who fall away have in fact lost their salvation. Rather we should conclude that they were only professing but not possessing faith. Paul teaches this same truth when he declares belief could be in vain (1 Cor. 15:2) or could be only temporary (see 1 Thess. 3:5). Jesus also clearly taught both the reality of professors being proven to not possess faith in the scary passage of Matt. 7:21-23, and the need to persevere in Luke 21:34-36 among other places.
To sum up the teaching of perseverance, let us quote 2 passages. 2 Thess. 2:13b “God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.” Heb. 6:12b “be…imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.” Both of these passages teach that ultimate, final salvation (inheriting the promises) come to those who both believe and persevere (are sanctified/have patience).
But should this teaching result in our condemning large segments of evangelicalism and condemning many we know? Are we to judge them as not being true possessors since we may doubt their perseverance? No! Emphatically, no! Remember, justification is a heavenly sentence. We do not know, here on earth, what that sentence is. We can judge based on their fruits, but we also must be aware of the motes and beams in our own eyes. We should judge ourselves first and others much later. We can have confidence and hope in our sovereign God that there are evidences of grace in all who profess salvation. But then again, we know Biblically that this is most likely not the case. So rather than condemn one another, we should seek to edify one another and encourage them to press on, and to continue in belief (Heb. 3:2-14 and Gal. 6:1-9).
Before I close, we must revisit that popular maxim, “once saved, always saved.” If “saved” is viewed as glorification, I do not disagree at all with that statement. Nor would I if “saved” is viewed as justification. But once again, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the proof of justification is in your works (James 2). So even with the truth of once justified, always justified in view, we must never assume we have been justified if we have no good works to point to as Spirit-wrought proof.
In conclusion, brothers and sisters, I say with the apostle John “Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward.” (2 John 1:8) And remember that although Jude warns us to “Keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life” (v. 21) he also assures us “Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy…” (v. 24). So do not lose heart. Trust in God’s great promises, and fight the good fight of faith. Above all, do not presume that you have arrived and are outside the bounds of Scripture’s warnings. Rather, “be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.” (2 Pet. 1:10)
For a more succinct treatment of this topic, I refer you to an earlier post where I reproduce an outline by my brother Dave on Heb. 3:2-14. Also, for a Biblical look at how important mutual edification of believers is, see my post on 1 Thessalonians. And for more resources concerning this topic, check out some articles and sermons by John Piper listed here on the issue of future grace, or just read his book referenced above. [The last link above was added 2/13/06.]
For further thoughts on this topic check out a more recent post here.
picture was borrowed from here.
Entry Filed under: Books & Reviews, Calvinism, Devotional, Evangelism, Perseverance, Quick Prayerism, Religion, Theology. .
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1.
Matt C | February 13, 2006 at 12:07 pm
From the Charles Stanley article:
“When I was twelve, I prayed a prayer similar to the one I’ve included here. If you are not sure you are saved, why not make sure now? If you recognize your need for forgiveness and you believe Christ’s death made your forgiveness possible, you are ready. Pray,
“God, I know I am a sinner.
I know my sin has earned for me eternal separation from You.
I believe Christ died in my place when He died at Calvary.
I accept His death as the full payment for my sin.
I accept Him as my Savior.
Thank You for saving me.
In Jesus’ name I pray.
Amen.”
By God’s great mercy, and in the light of the NT, this sounds like a joke to me. But do you know how many times through my childhood and teenage years I prayed something like that — always trying to make doubly sure I was saved? After launching a cheap prayer, nothing would change and my conscience would continue to sear.
Well said Bob. Thanks.
2.
D.J. Cimino | February 13, 2006 at 12:36 pm
Great post! Food for thought!
Regarding this comment by Doug Wilson:
“Can a Christian fall away? Yes. Can someone who is truly regenerate, elect of God, an eternal Christian, fall away? No, clearly not.”
When he says “Christian” does he mean someone who is that in name only? That is the only way I can see it, unless he means there can be others besides the elect that can become Chritians, and these individuals can lose their salvation… but surely he doesnt mean that… does he?
3.
Fundamentally Reformed | February 13, 2006 at 3:13 pm
DJ Cimino,
I am almost totally sure he is using “Christian” in the sense of “professing Christian” or “professing believer”. The people in Matt. 7:21-23 and Luke 13:25-28 sure would have called themselves Christians (the Mormons and Catholics do, too, you know).
4.
matt c | February 13, 2006 at 8:56 pm
I should clarify my original post — the “why not make sure” part of Stanley’s quote is the part that sounds like a joke. I tried to “make sure” many times myself, only feeling like maybe I should “make sure” again tomorrow.
The prayer itself is beautiful, and many have certainly begun their walk with a prayer like this coming from the depths of a repentant heart.
5.
Fundamentally Reformed | February 13, 2006 at 3:18 pm
Matt C,
Check out this post regarding the so-called Sinner’s Prayer. Assurance based on merely having prayed the prayer is certainly not Scriptural. This is not to say that some believer’s prayed a similar prayer in their initial conversion experience.
6.
Mathew Sims | February 14, 2006 at 5:11 pm
Hey great post about the topic. I like the Piper quotation from LPFG. It is so true that Christians use eternal security to say..”Even though I’m sinning, there is no way I can lose my salvation.” If you tell them otherwise they are shocked (not that they can lose but that they never possessed originally)! Thanks for the thought provoking post.
M.Sims
7.
DBULL | February 15, 2006 at 2:30 pm
With the amount of deception in this world I encourage people to throw away everything they’ve ever heard about God from another man, and start from scratch in the Bible. They need to meet Jesus themselves. Who ever came up with Calvinism or any other manmade niche of belief in Jesus? Jesus isn’t enough for most people, they need Jesus AND Calvin or Jesus AND Spurgeon, or Jesus AND the purpose driven life. How about Jesus period? The Lord said He Himself would teach us, isn’t that enough? Brother D
8.
Fundamentally Reformed | February 16, 2006 at 10:14 pm
DBULL,
Was there not enough Bible for you? The Spirit is sufficient to teach us, but he guides believers (plural) into all truth. The church receives and defends the truth (1 Tim. 3:15). God gave to the church the gifts of apostles, pastor/teachers, etc. to help us grow in knowledge (cf. Eph. 4:7-16). This includes his gift of teachers of eras gone by. Sure deception abounds, but there are plenty of gifted teachers given to the church as a whole down through the ages and in our own age. We are fools to try to do it on our own.
I refer you to this post about “Lone-Ranger-Christians” by James Spurgeon of the new Pyromaniacs blog. (Also check out this post which clarifies his first post, somewhat.) Also check out this post by Ryan DeBarr regarding our absolute dependence on learning and study to be able to understand the Bible.
9.
matt c | February 18, 2006 at 10:22 pm
dbull — Disregarding bible teachers would make the command of Heb 13:7 difficult…
“Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith.”
Key phrase here for you is probably “consider the outcome of their way of life.” That is, imitate if we see genuine fruit of the spirit in their lives.
10.
Der Fuersprecher | February 22, 2006 at 12:33 pm
I am thankful that there are those in the church with public ministries like your own who are able to distinguish between the biblical doctrine of perseverance and the antinomian “once saved always saved”/”no-lordship eternal security” view.
Thanks for the post – well done.
11.
reglerjoe | February 22, 2006 at 12:53 pm
Bob,
To use the modern vernacular: “You have totally blown my mind!”
I recently did a study of Hebrews, using the OSAS perspective that the warnings of apostacy were meant for unsaved Jews “checking out” the claims of Christianity. This, I now understand, fails to explain many other verses warning of apostacy.
I am truly beginning to see the difference between preservation and perseverance.
Thanks.
12.
Red Loser | March 31, 2006 at 11:09 am
fundamentally reformed:
“Lone-Ranger-Christians”
Personally, I prefer the phrase “the church of the severed limbs.” Has a nice ring to it.
13.
Fundamentally Reformed &r&hellip | August 16, 2006 at 12:15 pm
[...] Never heard of Free Grace Theology? Think easy believism. Think “no repentance needed for salvation”. Think 1-2-3 repeat after me. Well, maybe not that last one, but the other lines adequately describe this theological system. It is the view that a bare faith alone saves, and when I say “bare” I mean “bare”. I blogged a little about this earlier in my post entitled: “Once Saved, Always Saved?!?!?” There I highlighted how proponents of this view literally believe that someone can renounce the faith moments after getting saved, walk away from Christianity never to return, become a leading atheist, and still get to heaven. To learn more of this system check out Grace Evangelical Society, their statement of faith, and this “answer” to the question “What do you mean by Free Grace Theology?” [...]
14.
Bryan Wayne | September 19, 2006 at 1:55 pm
I have some very passionate feelings about the doctrine of “Once saved, always saved.” (Oddly, I was raised in a Baptist church, attend a Baptist church, and my father is an ordained Baptist minister!)
The logic used to support OSAS, defies, well, LOGIC!
Here’s my own personal take on the subject…
http://www.webspawner.com/users/eternalosas/index.html
Bryan
15.
fundyreformed | September 19, 2006 at 8:33 pm
Bryan,
Thanks for the link. About the point that they never really were saved, I agree that the way OSAS proponents marshall that fact is wrong. However, histocic Calvinism’s Doctrine of Perseverance would say that they never really were saved, too. But Calvinists still place a high value and importance on perseverance. I think that technically it is correct as only the truly elect and all the truly elect will be saved. But from our human perspective, we must always allow room for the fact that we might not truly be saved, that we could in actuality really fall away, as the apostle Paul held out concerning himself (1 Cor. 9:27).
Other than that, I agree with you.
God bless,
Bob Hayton
16.
Jesus’ Demands R&hellip | November 26, 2006 at 7:05 am
[...] Such warnings do not prove that we can actually lose our salvation. 1 Jn. 2:19 teaches that those who fall away were never truly saved, they just seemed to be. These warnings should also not cause us to try to earn our salvation by working real hard. No, they are what God uses to prod us onward along that straight and narrow way—the hard way. At times we will need to be warned that our lifestyle is not matching our profession. And they ultimately remind us that it is only God’s free grace given to us because of Jesus Christ’s perfect life, death, and resurrection, that gives us a secure place in heaven. The very warnings to continue believing will help us believe and call us to find refuge in Jesus Christ through ongoing faith and trust. [See this post for more on this point.] [...]
17.
My 219 Epiphany, part 2 &&hellip | January 27, 2007 at 4:01 pm
[...] even after my epiphany, it still took me a long time to really grasp this doctrine. My post “Once Saved, Always Saved?!?!” is another attempt to deal with this doctrine, and if you have questions check that post out for [...]
18.
heissailing | February 9, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Thanks for the interesting article. My old pastor used to quip that Jesus promised us eternal life upon receiving him, so what is eternal about something that you can lose? At any rate, if the Spirit teaches us and guides us to all truth, then why is there such a debate amongst Spirit filled Christians regarding this subject? How can Charles Stanley (whom I respect greatly) be so wrong if he is led by the same spirit?
19.
fundyreformed | February 9, 2007 at 4:03 pm
HeIsSailing,
Thanks for commenting. I too respect Charles Stanley, and he has faith in Christ. Certainly he is not encouraging anyone to only believe for 5 minutes. But when explaining what happens if someone only believes for 5 minutes, I believe he is wrong.
For background on my position, see my two recent articles detailing my change of thinking in this area: “My 219 Epiphany”, part 1 and part 2.
The Spirit does teach us and guide us into all truth. And he doesn’t just teach and guide only 20th or 21st century Christians. For hundreds of years the consensus Christian position on this issue would be the one I espoused in this article. It is the Reformed position. And for many years many people within Catholicism held a similar view (ie. Augustine).
Check out John 15:1-7 too.
If you have any questions about the passages I quote in this article, please ask. Also I encourage you to study them out on your own too. Look up what older commentators said about them, too. There is a wealth of online resources to this end.
I do pray the Spirit will bring the church to greater clarity and unity on this topic. And I pray God blesses you in your quest for truth.
Blessings on you because of Christ,
Bob Hayton
20.
The Christian Life As a R&hellip | July 11, 2007 at 1:07 pm
[...] ◊Once Saved, Always Saved?!?! [...]
21.
Bitterness and Desire: Re&hellip | July 11, 2007 at 1:08 pm
[...] ◊Once Saved, Always Saved?!?! [...]
22.
Jacob | July 13, 2007 at 9:44 am
We must not reason with in our own minds whether or not “we” think this or that. We must simply look at the truths of the Bible. The Lord’s Word KJB says that we can not loose our salvation. After all when we get saved we were brought with a price I Corinthians 6:20! Then if we are bought we are no longer ourselves, but we are the Lords. Christ also said in Romans 8:38;John 10:27-28 that we can loose our salvation. If he said no man can take you out of the fathers hand, then are we an exception. Ephesians 2:8-10 clearly states that it is by faith that we are saved. Christ said he is the author and finisher of our faith. Any act of being good Matt 7:21 is clearly a works salvation. Like it or not our thoughts are not his thoughts and our ways are not his ways. that is why I am glad that he is God instead of one of us. We wouldn’t be so merciful. Well Good enough for me God said it in His Word that settles it for me. Once he saves you he doesn’t give you a size one font listing of what you got to do to keep your salvation. No, saved is saved. No matter what when we get saved the Holy Spirit of God will stay with in our hearts.
Bro: Jacob
23.
Man-Centered Christianity&hellip | August 8, 2007 at 1:47 pm
[...] ◊Once Saved, Always Saved?!?! [...]
24.
Shawn Mann | November 6, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Good word! We can be removed!
John 15:2-taken away from Christ
Gal 5:4-severed from Christ
Rev 22:19-share of things in heaven revoked
25.
Seth McBee | November 7, 2007 at 12:09 am
So then…how in the world do you get around Jesus’ own words:
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand
John 10:29
Every single one of your references never says that those who are being spoken of are Christians, the elect, the chosen.
John 15:2 if you continue…they don’t abide in Christ..therefore they aren’t saved
Galatians 5: this is speaking of Judaizers who believed in circumcision was necessary to be saved…so again, they were not saved
Rev 22: Again…this is not even speaking about Christians at all…pretty brutal that you would include this…
26.
brightshinyobject | November 15, 2007 at 12:45 pm
Very well tempered and detailed. To persevere is what it is. We certainly persevere because The Spirit perseveres those who are in Christ, but it doesn’t change the fact that, even if it seems like it is real, it may be proven not to be.
One of my professors, in trying to account for both the eternal assurity of the sufficient sacrifice of Christ for those who are his sheep AND the fact that that eternal reality has continuing, temporal effects and consequences said this:
“Our salvation is assured, but tenuous, it is eternal, but pinching in upon us right now.”
27.
Kyle Smith | November 23, 2007 at 11:37 pm
So how do you explain away 1 John 5:13-oh let me guess, it means something else in the Greek right? Whatever, freak I’m a Greek Student and I don’t have to put up with your junk!
May God damn your soul with ever other false teacher!
28.
fundyreformed | November 24, 2007 at 6:54 am
Lovely Kyle. Thanks for “hoping all things” concerning me. Did you see the verses I provided which seem to support my views? Or are you just throwing out a text to counter mine? We must answer all the texts, they all should harmonize, given that they are all inspired.
29.
The Big “If”:&hellip | January 26, 2008 at 7:44 am
[...] 26, 2008 by fundyreformed Regular readers of this blog know I am not big on the “once saved, always saved” idea. I think it belittles the Bible’s emphasis on necessity of persevering faith, [...]
30.
Phillip M. Evans | February 16, 2008 at 11:37 am
Greetings Bob, you said:
“The Bible speaks of our need to “examine” ourselves (2 Cor. 13:5) and to diligently “make our calling and election sure” (2 Pet. 1:10). We cannot assume that since we believed in the past or made some profession of faith, we are absolutely and inviolably secure eternally. We must make room for the Scriptural potential that our faith could be insincere or not genuine. Luke 8:13 again, speaks of those who “believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away”. Even Paul leaves it open that he might even still yet become a “castaway” (same Greek word for apostate) in 1 Cor. 9:27.”
What you are advocating is rather perplexing to me. The simple meaning of faith is to trust in, to rely on, to have confidence in, to believe. In every other area of life are we to assume that human beings can know what they’ve placed their faith in, but when it comes to Christ, no one can really know if they’ve placed their faith in Him? Is this really what the Bible teaches? Of course, if you redefine faith as to encompass faithful service (works) to the end of one’s life, then it does follow that no one can truly know for sure if they really have faith until they come to the end and stand in “heaven’s throneroom”. However, to define faith in such a way is to crush underfoot the precious grace of God.
Concerning Luke 8:13, was Jesus meaning that people have a false faith for a while, or a true faith for awhile? How is it that one can fall away from a false faith? Yes, genuine born-again believers can fall away from their faith and their faith can be shipwrecked. But this doesn’t mean they were never saved to begin with. You can’t shipwreck an aorist belief in Christ. Once someone in a moment of times places trust in Christ they are born again and possess eternal life. This life is powered by the life of Christ within them, not by their continued faith.
When Jesus asked people to believe in him, did He ever say anything along the lines of, “He that believes in me has eternal life and will never perish, but be careful to make sure that you really believe, because in this life you can never really know for sure that your belief is genuine.”?
These are precisely the words your teaching would place in the mouth of our Savior. Actually, I should clarify that it’s not your unique teaching, but that of Calvinism.
You are misusing II Corinthians 13:5 and II Peter 1:10. Those verses were written to those that are truly saved, truly elect. Would it make any sense at all to say these things were written to those who are not elect? How could a non-elect person ever make their election sure? I know for sure that I’m one of the elect, because I’ve trusted in Christ as my Savior. I did not merely make a “profession of faith”, I actually KNOW whom I have believed. If Calvinism would make a liar out of me or tell me that I’m committing a sin of presumption, then I will beg Calvinism’s pardon. Or maybe not.
The very same ones who Peter told to make their “calling and election sure”, are ones who had genuine faith! Only a regenerate person (elect) can have genuine faith, am I right? Peter tells them just 9 verses earlier that they “have OBTAINED like precious faith”. In other words, the same saving faith as the Apostles!
“Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:” (II Peter 1:1)
What if these regenerate people failed to do what Peter told them to do. Would it mean that they were never really regenerate? If being regenerate means by default that they would automatically do it, then why would Peter need to exhort them?
As for II Corinthians 13:5, what would be the point if no one could really know that Christ is in them?
What Peter is exhorting the saints to do by making their calling and election sure, is to make it a real and living experience in their lives, to keep laying hold of it by faith. Not in order to make themselves elect, or to make sure that are elect, but in order that their practical application of it would keep them from stumbling.
You said:
“Glorification is the point when we are gloriously tranformed into Christ’s image immediately after our death. At this point salvation is final. Up until then, since we cannot enter heaven’s throneroom and hear the irreversible verdict of “not guilty” applied to us, we must trust in sanctification to prove the genuineness of our faith.”
If we can never know that we have eternal life until we step into “heaven’s throneroom”, how can that be reconciled with I John 5:13 that says we can KNOW that we have eternal life? Did the Apostle John mean that we can merely reasonable know, but we must make room that we might not really know for sure? And what is this “we must trust in sanctification to prove the genuineness of our faith”? Are you trying to say after all that we can know for sure that our faith is genuine before we die? And the standard you offer for this is not the unchangeable Word of God, but something more objective such as the degree of our faithfulness as we view it. I’m astonished!
Look at the following Scripture:
“He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.” (Romans 8:32-34)
Who is this written for if not for the elect? How could any of the elect take solace in this Scripture if they didn’t KNOW that they are one of the elect? Am I making any sense here?
Paul reminded his Christian brethren of their election! Apparently it is possible to truly know that you are elect before you die.
“Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.” (I Thessalonians 1:4)
Paul knew that he was a member of the elect:
“Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;” (Titus 1:1)
Peter addresses his readers as elect. If they didn’t have the ability to know that they are elect, how could they take his letter to heart?
“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,” (I Peter 1:1-3)
The Apostle John wrote to an elect lady. Do only the Apostles and those that they address have the privilege of knowing that they are elect?
“The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;” (II John 1:1)
You used I Corinthians 9:27 as evidence that even the Apostle Paul left open the possibility that his faith may not be sincere or genuine. By this are you saying that he believed that even he might not be one of the elect? If so, Titus 1:1 directly opposes you. Let’s look at the context:
“Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.” (I Corinthians 9:24-27)
Paul was concerned with receiving the prize. Contrary to both Arminianism and “Lordship Salvation” rooted in modern Calvinism, the prize is not merely entrance into the Kingdom of God, but one of an abundant entrance. In other words, Paul wanted the highest reward he could possibly attain. Faithful Christians will rule and reign with Christ. Not all born-again Christians are faithful, but they are still saved. I Corinthians 3:15 proves that there will be people in Heaven of which it could not be said that they had “endured to the end” in faithful service to God, for their works are burned up!
The solution for carnal Christians isn’t changing the terms of the Gospel in order to weed out the weak to make sure that the only true Christians are strong Christians.
Remember the ten lepers that were healed? All ten were genuinely healed and remained healed, but only one turned back to give thanks. Should Jesus have told them first, “Ok, I’m going to heal you, but only if you first promise to return thanks”?
Most Christians today are not thankful of their healing, but this does not invalidate the fact that they were healed.
Phillip M. Evans
31.
Approaching a Fearful God&hellip | February 24, 2008 at 5:14 am
[...] anyway? What’s this about fear? Why should we tremble before God, don’t we have our ticket to heaven [...]
32.
Phillip M. Evans | March 8, 2008 at 11:06 pm
Should not a child fear their mom and dad lest they get punished? Of course they should! But loving parents never kill their children no matter how they misbehave. Likewise, children of God fear their Heavenly Father. Yes, a child of God is secure and can never go to hell. Likewise, a child in an earthly home is always the son or daughter of their parents. Neither case negates the possibility of appropriate fear. To state otherwise would be nothing short of foolishness.
Sometimes God will take His misbehaving children home quicker than they would have liked. Just ask Ananias and Saphira. Fear fell on the church, not because they might lose their salvation, as Ananias and Saphira were saved and are in Heaven, but because their bodies could visit the grave sooner than they might have hoped.
If you believe God must threaten His children with eternal punishment lest we not fear Him, then you must also conclude that earthly parents must threaten to kill their children lest they wouldn’t fear them.
Is not God’s chastening hand enough for you to fear Him? Is not love enough of a motive to give Him reverent fear? Do you also need Him to threaten you with the unscriptural doctrine that a child of God can lose their eternal salvation?
Phillip M. Evans
33.
NWProdigal | May 22, 2008 at 2:49 pm
I am thunderstruck by the Doug Wilson’s words “Can a Christian fall away? Yes. Can someone who is truly regenerate, elect of God, an eternal Christian, fall away? No, clearly not.”
If the first use of the word “Christian” pertains to a “professing believer”, then, if they are not really saved, what pray tell, is there to apostatize from? A person who thinks they are saved, but in reality isn’t, is already damned, by definition. What could be worse than that? Yet the thought persists in these posts that a real Christian would never, ever apostatize!
It truly beggars credulity to see you folk criticize “easy-believeism” and “OSAS” and yet still support the same notion! According to Calvin, no one can truly know they are the elect. Hence the need to see if one is persevering, correct? Now, if one can ascertain that they are NOT persevering, surely one could reasonably tell if they ARE!!
In short, while Jesus said He will not cast out anyone who comes to Him, He also said that “Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. ”
(John 15:2 ESV) Now, if the branch is IN Him, it must be OF Him. God is the vinedresser who REMOVES the branches IN Christ that do not bear fruit. But, to stay Calvinists, you must make this a hypothetical “stay off the grass” warning.
You are very close to the truth, though, when you say that unbelief is the real danger. However, a “professing Christian” who really isn’t one, doesn’t have a real belief to lose, do they?
May God open our eyes to see ALL the truth.
Every sin will be forgiven, if confessed to God, except the sin against the Holy Spirit (Matt 12:31) which is simply coming to the point where one no longer or never believes the gospel and will not take God at His Word. Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God, hence unbelief is the sin that is to death in 1 John 5:16. John is saying “Don’t bother to pray for anyone who has done what Hebrews 3:12 warns true believers about.”
34.
eloise foltz | August 16, 2008 at 8:22 pm
I do not beleive once saved always saved–I have to find another church–please help me
in Christ
35.
fundyreformed | August 19, 2008 at 9:24 am
Eloise,
I’d recommend looking for a Sovereign Grace Ministries’ church, a PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) church, or another church that holds strongly to Calvinistic doctrine while still maintaining a fervent lively spirit (of evangelism and worship). Many SBC (Southern Baptist Convention) churches or even those of other denominations will fit the bill. A little bit of searching online can help with this. If you need more help, send me an email at bobhayton AT gmail DOT com. (put it all together and substitute symbols for the capitalized words)
Hope this helps,
God bless,
Bob Hayton
36.
Les | September 14, 2008 at 9:05 pm
to NWProdigal,
You say “Every sin will be forgiven, if confessed to God, except the sin against the Holy Spirit (Matt 12:31) which is simply coming to the point where one no longer or never believes the gospel and will not take God at His Word. Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God, hence unbelief is the sin that is to death in 1 John 5:16. ”
How does one determine that a person will never, or never again, believe ? At what point, or at the end of what timeframe ?
Please consider the following:-
Rom 11:11 I ask then, they did not stumble into an irrevocable fall, did they? Absolutely not! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make Israel jealous. 11:12 Now if their transgression means riches for the world and their defeat means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full restoration bring?
11:13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Seeing that I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
11:14 if somehow I could provoke my people to jealousy and save some of them.
11:15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
11:16 If the first portion of the dough offered is holy, then the whole batch is holy, and if the root is holy, so too are the branches.
11:17 Now if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among them and participated in the richness of the olive root,
11:18 do not boast over the branches. But if you boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
11:19 Then you will say, “The branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.”
11:20 Granted! They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but fear! 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps he will not spare you.
11:22 Notice therefore the kindness and harshness of God – harshness toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness toward you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
11:23 And even they – if they do not continue in their unbelief – will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
11:24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree?
11:25 For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.
11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion;
he will remove ungodliness from Jacob.
11:27 And this is my covenant with them,when I take away their sins.”
11:28 In regard to the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but in regard to election they are dearly loved for the sake of the fathers.
11:29 For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.
11:30 Just as you were formerly disobedient to God, but have now received mercy due to their disobedience,
11:31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that, by the mercy shown to you, they too may now receive mercy. 11:32 For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.
Please also take note of the word all in verse 32 and if you are genuinely searching for the truth, as I am, take a look at this website. If you can prove scripturally that this person is wrong I would be tremendously interested. Take up his challenge.
http://bible-truths.com/
Les
37.
Nancy | September 15, 2008 at 12:24 pm
One of my favorite pastors ever used to say…the question is not OSAS,,,but, are you saved…If not…let’s get that way!
Following after Jesus is very much the same as marriage…
We fall in love and join our lives not really knowing or understanding the fullness of the commitment. The questions that follow are often difficult as two lives are melded into one. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to be able to say there are no doubts, no challenges to belief in promises shared?? That just isn’t the human condition. What we can say, is that as we get to know our loved one, and choose daily to recommit and lay our lives down for each other, we are reassured of love’s endurance, if we will let it be so.
38.
123 Book Meme « Fun&hellip | November 9, 2008 at 1:51 pm
[...] Side-note: I thought it interesting that this quote is a critique of a simplistic “once saved, always saved” view of eternal security. One of my better blog posts is my own critique of that idea. [...]
39.
ruben | December 10, 2008 at 12:19 pm
“[...] professing but not possessing faith.” Well said! Thanks very much for this insightful article on perseverance of the saints. Not the easiest doctrine to explain to people because there’s a lot of misconceptions surrounding it, e.g. the belief that “once saved always saved” equals this doctrine. Nothing could be further from the truth. God bless !
40.
fundyreformed | December 10, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Thanks for the compliment, Ruben. I agree its a difficult concept to explain now a days.
41.
Matt S | February 1, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Wow.
to Phillip Evans: Do you mean to tell me that Ananias and Sapphira after lying to God went straight to heaven? Is that supposed to be God’s punishment to them, to take them out of this earthly battlefield to paradise, their eternal home? Frankly, the bible doesn’t say they went to heaven. Why would they care about their bodies if they lied to God but are in heaven? It doesn’t make sense. I’ve heard this example used many times to show that God will kill us before we fall away as true believers, but I see no evidence of such.
to fundyreformed: I agree with much of your article, but Phillip and NWProdigal still have some valid points too (especially about apostasy of the elect). I don’t believe OSAS for a second, and I take to heart all of God’s warnings in the New and Old Testaments. We also have to question the doctrine of a man (Calvin) who condoned the murder of a professing Christian (Servetus) who simply doctrinally disagreed with him (See Dan Corner’s http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org).
I especially agree with you that it is all inspired and all texts must agree. I’m not going to quote more scripture since most of the ones I’d quote are already on there on previous posts and your article. But I leave everyone with this. Harmonizing all scripture points to one theme: God wants a repentant heart that loves and seeks after Him constantly (or daily). Jesus summed it up with “the greatest commandment” and “the second…” There is no OSAS blank check to live as you please, but no amount of good works can get us there either.
I’m saved by the grace of the Father through my continuous faith in His Son, and kept by the Holy Spirit.
Peace in Christ brothers,
Matt
42.
fundyreformed | February 4, 2009 at 6:13 am
Matt,
We probably agree more than you think. The Servetus case, who denied the Trinity, gets lots of negative press. Calvin interceded for him to get a less severe death. It was the political city council that condemned him, and they had already expelled him once or something like that. He would have met a similar fate in many areas in that day. They viewed heresy as sedition back then. In today’s world we wouldn’t do that. But then we tolerate a whole lot more heresy too. It’s hard for us to judge them on this. Look at Calvin’s wider life and the many testimonies of his sincere piety and love for Christ before you condemn him on this one account.
Thanks for dropping by and commenting on this old post.
Blessings in Christ,
Bob
43.
ken ratz | April 1, 2009 at 8:11 pm
dale moody a baptist has tried to convince other baptist
the once saved always saved theory is fiction. hobbs
and others have not been able to prove him wriong, baptist
generally are in lock step on this. pride wiil not allow them to admit
their error -besides we would have to build a lot of confessional boxes to accomodate them. thids not being practical -pray for them